Grimrock

vlzvl wrote:Actually i don't believe Direct3D is faster than OpenGL.
Direct3D was always slower than OpenGL in many ways and just recently became as fast as OpenGL.
Perhaps Direct3D is faster on specific procedures than OpenGL and reverse, don't know about it.
But thing is one will have a hell of a time trying to convert a DX-based app (especially a big one like Grimrock)
to anything else than having started it with cross-platformity in mind.

I was referring to this:

petri wrote:Maybe. Although in my tests it seems that the Grimrock engine has better performance on Direct3D.

vlzvl wrote:For Linux you have Wine for saving you that work, what do you have on OSX for converting from DX ?

Wine is available for x86 Mac OS X although I'm not sure how well it works.

vlzvl wrote:on iOS? Android?

Dunnu about those two. I'd love to play either Grimrock on a tablet though.

vlzvl wrote:You can't have a Wine for all platforms, you know.

Worth the time converting your code to native one? Dunno, one needs to measure $$$ sales in all platforms, i suppose Windows is on #1 and there's no reason for OpenGL.
Is it?
nowadays i would say no, regarding also Grimrock's tablet versions and such.

I assume that most people who play games either do it using a console or a PC with Windows installed, still. It doesn't seem likely to me that the amount of time and effort spent converting the code from Direct3D to OpenGL only for the sake of Mac OS X, Linux, Android, BSD, iOS etc. would be worthwhile. Then again, I haven't even used SDL so I have no idea what work is involved. We can always hope for Grimrock 3, eh?

I assume that most people who play games either do it using a console or a PC with Windows installed, still. It doesn't seem likely to me that the amount of time and effort spent converting the code from Direct3D to OpenGL only for the sake of Mac OS X, Linux, Android, BSD, iOS etc. would be worthwhile.

Well, regarding the current OS usage causes the procedure to work by cross-platform in mind not worthing in both workhours and money.

Windows = 57%
Linux = 20%
iOS / OSX = 18%

But this is also a result of everyone's thinking hey, everyone's have Windows, let's program it there, who cares for linux / osx, omg
Few years ago nobody would gave a flying dart for tablets OSes or Mac gaming (really?) either, now the world is flaming with apps.
Things change, anytime is a good time for doing your app cross-platform and in my opinion is worting any time you spent in it, even if you're losing 5% of performance because the target system doesn't handle things so well as Windows API (rather hilarious, since Windows API is one of the most blamed stuff in the world today, believe me)

Then again, I haven't even used SDL so I have no idea what work is involved. We can always hope for Grimrock 3, eh?

SDL is just a (old and big, but still kicking) library using native code for every case etc. creating a window, the OpenGL context, play a sound. GLFW is another (newer) library as well. I know exactly how much work its involved (as im working on my own library) for making things cross-platform and isn't really much if you start with that in mind.
Then, you only need one line of G++ compiler (and a VM ) to get your native binary to any system, without complexities.
Easy stuff, directx is just making things difficult and closed as heck.

vlzvl wrote:Well, regarding the current OS usage causes the procedure to work by cross-platform in mind not worthing in both workhours and money.

Windows = 57%
Linux = 20%
iOS / OSX = 18%

This might be the current overall OS usage but this does not display the revelant information: the installations usage for games. This requires a look at game site surveys like this one from steam: http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

Windows = 95.35%
OSX = 3.42%
Linux = 1.16%

Totally different story.

Dr.Disaster wrote:

vlzvl wrote:Well, regarding the current OS usage causes the procedure to work by cross-platform in mind not worthing in both workhours and money.

Windows = 57%
Linux = 20%
iOS / OSX = 18%

This might be the current overall OS usage but this does not display the revelant information: the installations usage for games. This requires a look at game site surveys like this one from steam: http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

Windows = 95.35%
OSX = 3.42%
Linux = 1.16%

Totally different story.

This only makes it more difficult to understand why the developers would go through all the extra trouble to support other platforms. It makes sense though to focus on Windows for games since it is usually bundled with the PC you buy or pirated, so Linux being free of charge (usually) wouldn't sway many unless they care about user freedom etc. Still, it would suck to get a gimped version of the game because of it.

Then again, in some cases Linux and Mac OS X make up a significant part of the total sales and pay more on average than Windows users:

Hey, thanx for the detailed graphs and the link to actual gaming usage.

This might be the current overall OS usage but this does not display the revelant information: the installations usage for games. This requires a look at game site surveys like this one from steam: http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

Windows = 95.35%
OSX = 3.42%
Linux = 1.16%

Totally different story.

As expected, Windows was and will be the leading monster in gaming industry but did you noticed the reduced usage in all Windows systems? (except Windows 8.1, probably for benchmarks).
This of course doesn't translate to windows's no good anymore but rather to other OSes on desktop / tablets increased in share.
The percentages above cover only the OSX installation usage? and say apps on Apple store as well or other growing OS like Android ?

Also, check on the following:

Android is the most popular OS (in recent devices); As of 2013, Android devices sell more than Windows, iOS, and Mac OS X devices combined,[14][15][16][17][18] with sales in 2012, 2013 and 2014[19] close to the installed base of all PCs.[20] As of July 2013 the Google Play store has had over 1 million Android apps published, and over 50 billion apps downloaded.[21] A developer survey conducted in April–May 2013 found that 71% of mobile developers develop for Android.[22] At Google I/O 2014, the company revealed that there were over 1 billion active monthly Android users (that have been active for 30 days), up from 538 million in June 2013.[23]

also:

Originally unveiled in 2007 for the iPhone, it has been extended to support other Apple devices such as the iPod Touch (September 2007), iPad (January 2010), iPad Mini (November 2012) and second-generation Apple TV onward (September 2010). As of June 2014, Apple's App Store contained more than 1.2 million iOS applications, 500,000 of which were optimized for iPad.[6][7] These apps have collectively been downloaded more than 60 billion times.[8] It had a 21% share of the smartphone mobile operating system units shipped in the fourth quarter of 2012, behind Google's Android.[9] By the middle of 2012, there were 410 million devices activated.[10] According to the special media event held by Apple on September 12, 2012, 400 million devices had been sold by June 2012.[11]

Those OSes are not covered by the above usage and they natively supports OpenGL. Of course, the AAA titles are going to swarm all over Windows because this is what people learn't over the years. MACs are are not cheap and this doesn't help game sales, Linuxes, despite the fact they got easier with newer distros, are still not something a new user will consider for his AAA gaming and tablets and such, well, they're small for hardcore gaming.

Conclusion: Windows for AAA titles (and only that)

But could you say that Legend of Grimrock could not be played in one of those OSes as well? I think Almost Human has some plans supporting some tablet OS, am i wrong? Is that wil be interpreted as installation by above usage?

I can only speak for myself, but AH didn't say no. They surely understand that majority of their userbase is on Windows, so I think they plan on focus on that first. There are quite a few posts around this forums about Mac and Linux support that are demanding, I would even say borderline of being rude. That's definitely not the way to go.

Hey, gentlepeople from AH! Thank you for your awesome games. According to Steam, I spent whopping 294 hours playing LoG1. I did play more as I initially bought it on gog and then bought it two or three more times on steam (once on its own and I think two more times as bundles). I played it on Windows, Linux and Mac. I bought LoG2 an hour after it became available in preorder. I'll buy it again when you release a Mac version. I'll buy it third time when you release it for Linux.

thomson wrote:I can only speak for myself, but AH didn't say no. They surely understand that majority of their userbase is on Windows, so I think they plan on focus on that first. There are quite a few posts around this forums about Mac and Linux support that are demanding, I would even say borderline of being rude. That's definitely not the way to go.

I'm just wondering why they would do all the extra work when there is a seemingly easier way to do it. So far the only response from a developer has been that the game engine performs better on Direct3D than (implied) OpenGL. Perhaps the porting is outsourced? As for tablets, well... I don't own one myself (I'm not a huge fan of typing on touchscreens) but playing a game like this on one would be pretty cool.

thomson wrote:According to Steam, I spent whopping 294 hours playing LoG1. I did play more as I initially bought it on gog and then bought it two or three more times on steam (once on its own and I think two more times as bundles). I played it on Windows, Linux and Mac. I bought LoG2 an hour after it became available in preorder. I'll buy it again when you release a Mac version. I'll buy it third time when you release it for Linux.

I'd gladly pay extra for both a Linux version and an Android version. Sadly my Mac is stuck on OS X 10.6.8 so I guess that's out of the question.