Do pits play it to safe?

[DJK]

Ok before I get flamed, yes I DO like this game .. However there is one thing that bothers me a little... "pits". For those that played Eye of the Beholder you'll understand what I mean... pits in my eyes play it to safe... instead of a thing to fear they become something to "let's check out what's down here, because well ... there might be... and besides, there will be a convenient teleporter or stair back up anyway"

In eye of the beholder pits were tools of the demon.. you avoided them because you KNEW what it would do, it would plunge you straight down to the next level... no convenient ways to get back a few tiles from your fall location... if you didn't know the level by heart you just screwed your natural progression and were in strange surroundings batling your way to what you hope would eventually be a stairs back up... (and those stairs won't conveniently place you close to your pit entry point... it will put you straight at the "end" of the previous level)..

And the awesome devs at (rip) westwood knew exactly what they were doing... who remembers falling into a pit in level 3 only to be plunged down into the depths of the respawning spider hell of level 4 ? If you didn't have the Clue book back then with maps (no internet then sorry youngh ones).. you were in for a NIGHTMARE of an experience.. mazelike environment, spiders everywhere, it had a top to bottom loop so you could go on "north" forever (well at least untill you figured out why you keep encountering the same hallways), it had respawing webs and spiders, you didn't encounter any cure potion pots yet so spiders who bit you would slowly start posioning your whole party and it became a race against time not only to get out of there, but to then find some cure potion pots as well (to be fair, there were some cure potion pots inside this locked off place but they were hard to find ... it had invisible walls.. it had wall tiles becoming pathways if you activated pressure plates nowhere close to where the wall will dissapear just to confuse the heck out of you... and to top it off, the only 4 doors out where locked requiring you to find a key before being able to thumble out of this hellhole.... BUT and this is a big but, when you did make it out, finally able to close that damned door behind you and rest you felt like on TOP OF THE WORLD... (IF you made it out, plenty of parties perished)

The pits to this part of level 4 were most likely the most harsh pits in the game but nevertheless with some rare exceptions, pits always were inconvenient, and an ADVENTURE if you (on purpose or not) dropped into one... for a reminder this is level 4: (the place you dropped into was the whole right side of the level locked off by 4 doors)


Now compare this to the Grimrock pits who are in comparisson very very VERY tame... providing easy convenient locations that in 95% of the times are isolated patches who technically are on the next level but other then that.. have nothing to actually do with that level... It's obviously done to cut out "frustration" and make sure players don't get "lost" to much... but I'd hope that if there is a expansion pack or a Grimrock 2 that the almost equally awesome devs at Almost Human allow for some harsher pits and make them less of a loothole

[Jirodyne]

Oh trust me, when the dungeon editor comes out and we can make our own dungeons, the pits are the first thing I am going to fix. Every pit in Grimdark, all 30+, except maybe... 4 I think, All have something useful in it; An item, key, secret, or something useful. When I make my dungeon, you're going to learn fast that not all pits are safe anymore.

Pits could be used in many ways; Traps, secrets, shortcuts, puzzles, dead ends, even have no use at all other than to make the path to the next area harder to get to. But in Grimdark, as I said, 99% of all the pits are just for secrets. With the other excepts being the Have nothing at all.

Pits are something that can easily be taken farther in the game, and I believe we are going to see some very wacky, tricky, and complicated stuff never thought of before when the players get their hands on the editor. I also believe the most creative maps, will be made by those that have never played the old games, like DM and EoB before. Like me. Cause we have never seen what other games have done, so can really think outside the box without drawing ideas from puzzles that have already been done.

[Sir Tawmis]

...Every pit in Grimdark, all 30+, except maybe... But in Grimdark, as I said, 99% of all the pits

What is this Grimdark game you speak of?

[Bees]

...Every pit in Grimdark, all 30+, except maybe... But in Grimdark, as I said, 99% of all the pits

What is this Grimdark game you speak of?

Hey, don't be a Grimdork!

[Sir Tawmis]

Hey, don't be a Grimdork!

I'm on a old school based RPG forum - I think Dork is mandatory!

On the topic of Pits Playing It Safe... You're right, EYE OF THE BEHOLDER was a nightmare... (in a very fun, chaotic way)... A bunch of those SSI games were, though. It was their fomula (except the side scroller versions - like the Dragonlance one). As for LoG playing it safe with their pits - ironically, I hate falling down into a pit even in LoG. Not only does it damage the players (which is a bit troublesome when LoG has no Cleric/Priest class) - but it also throws off my mapping. And I need to get out, get back to a familiar spot, and try to begin mapping it again. (I love that the map is there in game IF I want to use it; but I enjoy trying to map it all myself). So while, they do play it safe - they're still a pretty big distraction/inconvenience in LoG. That said, I welcome the idea of the editor and these new dungeons with epic pits.

[jontycampbell]

I don't mind pits - as long as you fall down them on purpose with full health/mana and a spell/missile weps armed your fine, sometimes you even fall on an enemy and squish them for instant kill.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi.

Well, in many places pits are part of puzzles or part of a "side-quest" for treasure hunters; but I wouldn't want to go as far that all or most of the pits are there to be entered.

About falling on monsters: Yep, works very well, but you don't receive 'em experience points for the biests ...

I agree: The pits in EoB were a lot more frightening - and sometimes even frustrating. But this applies for some of the "unimportant" traps in "Grimdork" (I like that) as well - just as an example: the huge hall with all those skeleton warriors which really are challenging on "hard mode" and really unnecessary regarding the game ...

Anyway: Am looking forward to seeing / creating maps which are more challenging/ frightening/ terrifying/ whatnot regarding the pits ...

All the best!
Liam

[Isaac]

Expect pits with teleporters under them, and some with spikes.

** I would like to suggest and request a new item... A rope ladder that can be 'dropped' on a pit, and allows a slow decent and the option to ascend back up the hole.

[LiamKerrington]

Expect pits with teleporters under them, and some with spikes.

Actually I have plans for the "Fortress of Real Evil" using the pit<->teleporter-thing ...

[Sir Tawmis]

I think another reason why EotB pits were more hellish than LoG (or most of the CRPGs that came later) - is because, EotB and the earlier "RPG" type games were essentially emulating old school Dungeons & Dragons "dungeon crawls." (I mean if you look at some of the maps for EotB, you can easily see how they resemble the old D&D maps). I think as CRPGs advanced, and become more powerful - it began to be less about "surviving the dungeon" and a little more about the story, character advancement, little treasure secrets, etc.