Grimrock

Hi,

dbgager wrote:No..THats exactly how I will reply..because that is how the game works.

You said that often enough now. And that is known. Yet you show, that you are still ignoring the point of the discussion here at all.

Apart from that, insulting people doesn't help you...

Elderian

Elderian wrote:Hi,

dbgager wrote:No..THats exactly how I will reply..because that is how the game works.

You said that often enough now. And that is known. Yet you show, that you are still ignoring the point of the discussion here at all.

Apart from that, insulting people doesn't help you...

Elderian

Stop saying the game is badly designed. It shows how little people understand the goal of a game. If you are having fun then it is a well designed game. Its not a spreadsheet, its a game. And the only thing a game needs to be good at is providing enjoyment. And Grimrock does that better than any game I have playe din a very long time.

dbgager wrote:

Elderian wrote:Hi,

dbgager wrote:No..THats exactly how I will reply..because that is how the game works.

You said that often enough now. And that is known. Yet you show, that you are still ignoring the point of the discussion here at all.

Apart from that, insulting people doesn't help you...

Elderian

Stop saying the game is badly designed. If you are having fun then it is a well designed game. Its not a spreadsheet, its a game. And the only thing a game needs to be good at is providing enjoyment.

There's a difference between "a bad game", "a good game" and "a good game that could see some improvements". Anyone who thinks that LOG doesn't need improvements is wearing blinkers. That's not to detract from it; it is an excellent piece of work. But no game is perfect.

So, I don't see the harm in discussing what people would think of as "improvements", even if you yourself don't agree. But it's a discussion, a two-sided debate.

Needing improvement is your opinion. Others do not share that opinion. Therefore whether it needs those improvements is also your opinion.

I find it ridiculous that people are actually insulting the game and calling it bad game design, because they can not have high HPs, and also develop other skills at the same time. Thats why its called a choice. There is no optimum path.So play the game and don't worry about it. You will make it to the end level regardless.

By the way the minute..you start using words like "bad game design"..the developer is going to tune you out.

Just a note:

The devs have expressed interest in feedback, even from people that are unhappy with the game, or were expecting something else, or aren't fast enough to play this game effectively. Yelling at people for giving feedback that you don't agree with suggests that you disagree with the devs about the purpose of having a forum...

And yes, it's all opinion. That said, there's pretty solid evidence that, in general, a game design that penalizes you harshly for developing skills in the wrong order, not just for picking the wrong skills, tends to lead to more unhappiness from players. Ultimately, the goal of the game is to make players happy. Otherwise, you can't sell games.

Needing improvement is your opinion. Others do not share that opinion. Therefore whether it needs those improvements is also your opinion.

I wouldn't say needing improvement is an opinion. Or rather, that "not needing any improvement" is a silly way to think. The game has a number of bugs, would you like these to continue to be in the game? If no, then we're just debating over the level of "improvement".

I find it ridiculous that people are actually insulting the game and calling it bad game design, because they can not have high HPs, and also develop other skills at the same time. Thats why its called a choice. There is no optimum path.So play the game and don't worry about it. You will make it to the end level regardless.

Also, most of the issue with VIT isn't that you can't do "max hp with skills", it's that you have little control over it. My sword skill and the damage from it, for example, reflects the time and points I have put into it. My health has no bearing really on anything I've done because of the random element to it.

seebs wrote:Just a note:

The devs have expressed interest in feedback, even from people that are unhappy with the game, or were expecting something else, or aren't fast enough to play this game effectively. Yelling at people for giving feedback that you don't agree with suggests that you disagree with the devs about the purpose of having a forum...

And yes, it's all opinion. That said, there's pretty solid evidence that, in general, a game design that penalizes you harshly for developing skills in the wrong order, not just for picking the wrong skills, tends to lead to more unhappiness from players. Ultimately, the goal of the game is to make players happy. Otherwise, you can't sell games.

Yes constructive feedback.. The minute you start using the phrase "Bad game design", and insinuating you know more than them. You will be tuned totally out.

Drax wrote:

Needing improvement is your opinion. Others do not share that opinion. Therefore whether it needs those improvements is also your opinion.

I wouldn't say needing improvement is an opinion. Or rather, that "not needing any improvement" is a silly way to think. The game has a number of bugs, would you like these to continue to be in the game? If no, then we're just debating over the level of "improvement".

I find it ridiculous that people are actually insulting the game and calling it bad game design, because they can not have high HPs, and also develop other skills at the same time. Thats why its called a choice. There is no optimum path.So play the game and don't worry about it. You will make it to the end level regardless.

Also, most of the issue with VIT isn't that you can't do "max hp with skills", it's that you have little control over it. My sword skill and the damage from it, for example, reflects the time and points I have put into it. My health has no bearing really on anything I've done because of the random element to it.

D&D was that way for 20 years...MAny people enjoyed the system immenselly. You have plenty of conttrol..Not exact control..but randomness is good . Its a role playinng game. Not a spreadsheet.

dbgager wrote:
D&D was that way for 20 years...MAny people enjoyed the system immenselly.

This isn't D&D. Whilst LOR certainly has some D&D heritage, trying to debate about one videogames design choices based on the design choices of another isn't productive. They're share a genre, but so do CoD and Tribes Ascend and they play very differently.

Randomness is good upto a point. Random AI keeps you guessing in fights. But an RPG is a Role-Playing Game, you should feel like you are the character and part of that is ensuring you feel like you're in control of his/her/it's progression.

seebs wrote:Just a note:

The devs have expressed interest in feedback, even from people that are unhappy with the game, or were expecting something else, or aren't fast enough to play this game effectively. Yelling at people for giving feedback that you don't agree with suggests that you disagree with the devs about the purpose of having a forum...

And yes, it's all opinion. That said, there's pretty solid evidence that, in general, a game design that penalizes you harshly for developing skills in the wrong order, not just for picking the wrong skills, tends to lead to more unhappiness from players. Ultimately, the goal of the game is to make players happy. Otherwise, you can't sell games.

If that makes you unhappy..You need to find another hobby. Is all I can say.