Changes from Grimrock 1 you DIDN'T like

[LastFootnote]

3. Empty bottles


Now: There is no empty bottle left after consuming a potion. You craft potions with herbs alone, after drinking they disappear.

(This is not a real issue for me , however I'm just curious why was it impossible to make empty bottles stack in inventory ? Many people loved the realistic feeling of having an empty bottle remain after drinking a potion, allowing to concoct another kind in it)

I think this one is pretty easily explainable: it's a result of potions stacking. Say your character's bag is packed. He has no empty slots anywhere and also no empty bottles. He has 3 stacked healing potions in his had. He drinks one. Where would the empty bottle go? Would it just drop onto the ground? Seems kludgy. Hence the current system.

[Hucast]

The one thing I haven't seen posted is how useless weapon skills feel in general. When I'm in a brawl, especially with two handed characters, needing to hold down the weapon button for a period of time to attack makes them impractical to use, not counting the energy cost being way to high. I would like if it was just an alternate button to use the skill at the cost of energy, perhaps with a cool down, or just a random chance like in the first one.

[Chimera005ao]

I would like if it was just an alternate button to use the skill at the cost of energy, perhaps with a cool down, or just a random chance like in the first one.

The charge time was intentional, its another cost of using the skill.
Random chance sucked, I like being able to choose.

Every time I see people saying they didn't like this, I have to wonder what they are doing. Standing there getting killed while charging one character, then charging the next?
I charge while I'm not in range of the enemy, then open with a strong swing from my warrior, or a flurry of 4 backstabs with my rogue, then attack with everyone else.
Its hardly different than using magic, or brewing potions mid battle, yet I never hear complaints about those.

[Hucast]

I would like if it was just an alternate button to use the skill at the cost of energy, perhaps with a cool down, or just a random chance like in the first one.

The charge time was intentional, its another cost of using the skill.
Random chance sucked, I like being able to choose.

Every time I see people saying they didn't like this, I have to wonder what they are doing. Standing there getting killed while charging one character, then charging the next?
I charge while I'm not in range of the enemy, then open with a strong swing from my warrior, or a flurry of 4 backstabs with my rogue, then attack with everyone else.
Its hardly different than using magic, or brewing potions mid battle, yet I never hear complaints about those.

You can't use more than one person's skill at a time. during the period I'm charging up a skill I could quickly attack with four basic attacks, be buffering magic, or other things. During intense battles, or ones where there simply isn't much room to move around, charging these skills takes critical time away from the battle that could be used for other things. Take a look at someone who has been playing the game at it's hardest; viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7559. He acknowledges that skills simply take too long in the harder fights to charge. The tipping point is that the cost is both charge AND energy. Because of that, skills have their use in many situations significantly hampered. I see absolutely no reason to have a charge time, why not just an energy requirement?

[Luj1]

Take a look at someone who has been playing the game at it's hardest; viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7559.

He acknowledges that skills simply take too long in the harder fights to charge.

I was fine with the LoG1 system (passive chance). Albeit worth noting is that was embedded in skills, not weapons

I'm not yet sure what to think of this new system (charging). I can use it just fine by charging, holding and releasing onto an enemy. This allows a good surprise factor, but is problematic in longer, dynamic fights. So, perhaps what I'd do is the following ....


Keep this current 'charge a special move' system (which is linked to weapons)

Bring back the passive chance for a 'special move' that uses energy (same like in LoG1 - linked to skill level, not weapons)


This way, you wouldn't always be forced to charge in complex, dynamic fights to get more damage (and by that spend priceless time by doing nothing with the other party members) and instead rely on passive chance. So it's basically empowering weapon skills (some people apparently think they're weak)



EDIT:........ or an even better idea - Make charging a weapon mildly automated. For example Holding for more than 1 second would make the move finish itself (Lets say a full move lasts 3s )

Keep in mind this wouldn't make surprises impossible, you'd just have to time it while closing in on the enemy tile

[BouH]

Good news, i found some kind of treasures, it's stone statues from archives.

[Jirodyne]

I hate the level design. How if it's a first time run, most likely they will FORCE you to leave a dungeon half complete to go explore somewhere else for the answers to have to complete it. And most of the time it doesn't even make sense! Like the puzzle to open the Cementary, is a story locked away in the Archives of the old ruins. And it's the ONLY THING locked away down there behind a complicated puzzle in code that you need to complete a different puzzle to get the code breaker solution! *facepalms* It's just too forceful in it's 'Get the fuck out and explore!'

I would have like it more with choices. You can solve a puzzle only once, but so it multiple ways. And depending on how you solve it, opens up different doors to different areas. Or get to Sleet Island and it gives 4 areas and has to pick which you want to do. Kinda like now, but with all 4 being very long, and not needing to leave to visit others. Like to go to the Cementary, you have to complete most, if not all, of the Ruins. And to enter the Pyramid, you need to go to the very very small minor area bog. (The starting beach and cave is bigger than this area! *facepalms again*) and just solve 1 puzzle to get the solution to entering the Pyramid.

I think it would have made the game more fun if you had choices that effected the world around you, and that you couldn't do everything by yourself. That was another thing I hated. The first one you could go right forward with a build and test how it is. Because this one is so more open, you can't really test builds because you can just leave the area and go somewhere easier first to powerlevel then come back to it. The first game did have some 'grinding' respawn spots, but not very many. Here, you can Grind everywhere.

-----

The other thing I hate is the magic system. It's all the same! They just took out the 4 Enchant Arrow spells, and added Shield, Dark Bolt, Force Field, and Meteor instead! Same number of spells! They should have doubled or tripled the spell count! Especially when adding in ANOTHER mage class AND giving Everyone the ability to cast magic! Which also brings up the Elementals. The Water and Earth Golems, I am ok with. But the annoying and near unkillable Air Elements everyone hates. EVERYONE. There are more posts about that enemy than ANYTHING else in the game. That says something. And I hate that the Fire Elementals are basically Suicide Bombers. Very stupid. High Fire Resist and/or Fire Protection, and they really do just commit suicide with nothing happening.

-----

What else do I not like that was change. No limited bottles for Alchemy. How it is in here, for my second run threw on Hard I got my Alechemist to Alchemy 4 at level 4, then saved every single herb and picked up everything. Needless to say, when I got to the final 2 bosses, I had an endless supply of Res Potions, HP Potions, Energy Potions, and so on. 3 Alchemists and 1 Knight? Most OP setup ever because you'd just be able to Res/heal tank everything!

With the first one, you not only had limit herbs, but also bottles too. You couldn't just make 10 HP potions and 10 Energy potions, and 10 Antidote potions. You had to plan ahead, know when you have some HP potions ready and how many to need, same with Energy and antidotes and the others.

Also here you can also make the Perminate boost potions too. Takes a lot of steps. Yes. But with a Macro, and going to sleep.... You get everything easily...

------

Gold Keys/Locks! Ok, out of everything THIS is one I hate the most! In the first game you had 6 Locked vaults, 3 at mid points, and 3 at end game. But in the entire game are only TWO keys, one at midpoint and one at end game. The end games vaults were much better than the midgame vaults, but the midgame vaults made it easier to actually get to the end game. So you had choice, use the key now and make it easier to get to the end game and the other vaults. Or save it, have a harder time getting to the end, but when you did get TWO epic power vaults to unlock?

Here tho, and I have ranted on this before, there are like 16+ Gold Locks, and all except like 1-3 are pointless, useless, and totally will never be opened no matter what! *facepalms* The first game, the rewards were epic, unique and very helpful. Here in the second one tho, some of them items are 'unqiue' But almost all are completely worthless compared to other items you find easily that are just plain better. I already pointed out in another post that there were 3 orbs not even 3 mins apart 10 mins into the game. 2 locked behind Gold Keys and 1 just behind a puzzle. And the one behind a puzzle, not needing a key, was just plain better than the 2 from the gold locks! >.< And even then, when you know what is in them all and your planing your party, you'll need at most 2-3 keys, but there are like 10 in the whole game! So they don't even give you the illusion of choice! Whatever you want, you will be able to get!

This has disappointed me the most.

[HotMaarl]

some pretty petty bickering here. while I agree that empty potion bottles were cool, they were hardly definitive. And the reason you didn't run out of food was because you milked your quickload keys instead of playing hardcore. Food (starvation) became an issue for me at several points in the game probably because my characters were expending energy running around trying to figure puzzles legit instead of those who simple hit pause and then ran to some forum for the solution.

you can tell which people here grew up on Halo. nubs.

[thufir]

I am curious as to whether or not these people with charge time complaints have played Fighters yet.

[BouH]

I hate the level design. How if it's a first time run, most likely they will FORCE you to leave a dungeon half complete to go explore somewhere else for the answers to have to complete it. And most of the time it doesn't even make sense! Like the puzzle to open the Cementary, is a story locked away in the Archives of the old ruins. And it's the ONLY THING locked away down there behind a complicated puzzle in code that you need to complete a different puzzle to get the code breaker solution! *facepalms* It's just too forceful in it's 'Get the fuck out and explore!'

I would have like it more with choices. You can solve a puzzle only once, but so it multiple ways. And depending on how you solve it, opens up different doors to different areas. Or get to Sleet Island and it gives 4 areas and has to pick which you want to do. Kinda like now, but with all 4 being very long, and not needing to leave to visit others. Like to go to the Cementary, you have to complete most, if not all, of the Ruins. And to enter the Pyramid, you need to go to the very very small minor area bog. (The starting beach and cave is bigger than this area! *facepalms again*) and just solve 1 puzzle to get the solution to entering the Pyramid.

I think it would have made the game more fun if you had choices that effected the world around you, and that you couldn't do everything by yourself. That was another thing I hated. The first one you could go right forward with a build and test how it is. Because this one is so more open, you can't really test builds because you can just leave the area and go somewhere easier first to powerlevel then come back to it. The first game did have some 'grinding' respawn spots, but not very many. Here, you can Grind everywhere.

Actually that's meant to be, because Island Master want to play with you or train you. Also I cant remember Dispel and Shield spells in LoG1.