Grimrock

The thing is with the spells its a balance of damage and utility, they are balance alot better from LoG1

only the early spells get weaker spells ie shock cloud and fire all lvl one around mid game start to fall off in base damage even with lvl 5 in their element,

but all other damage spells scale well and never fall off, spells become more dependent on what you are fighting and where aka dont cast frost on an ice element

one major point is to get dispell its the only spell to hurt elementals almost all other damage sources are reduced to 1 or 0 to them

ps to other guy saying spells suck, just because you need them to add a game break spell that kills every thing to make yourself good at the game do not spam forums with hate full no critizing crap you call your life support the game and actually say whats so unbalanced and do not just say its unbalanced and they suck we can not have any discussion on the topic if you just say nothing but hate and adjectives.

Ayren wrote:OMG thx bro you are my Hero!

btw how strong is the Meteor spell, Is it useful ?

it's 5 fireballs, each doing normal fireball damage, for about half the cost (cost same as casting 2.5 fireballs). also, if one of the fireballs kills your target, the rest will continue onwards to hit any other targets in line. also, they are fired with a slight delay each, so the last ones fired can sometimes catch things moving out of a square.

yeah, useful. Pretty much the only damage spell I use unless it's rats (it sails right over those packs of tiny rats), or immune to fire.

Thanks AH for the new base spells!
I really like that most of them require multiple skills to cast

I would have forced the players to find the scrolls (and read/learn) before being able to cast - but its no big deal
I guess not doing this allows more freedom in how you want to specialise casters and in what kind of time frame

Cant wait to destroy something with meteor shower!!

Akroma

sergregor wrote:I didn't find Ice Shards particularly good. You face a lot of enemies weak to fire and poison early on; by the time you face things weak to ice, shards will be obsolete. Plus if you don't waste a point in earth you can rush Frost Bolt really early which is probably the best spell in the game. It's not worth dumping a whole skill point into a useless skill tree (earth magic) just so you can have a soon-to-be-obsolete spell with mediocre damage and high energy cost.

Given the choice between 1 point in earth for ice shards VS 1 extra point in air for lightning bolt I think the choice is pretty clear. But I agree you could get by without either. All you really need I think is frost bolt and fireball, which is convenient because they both involve air.

I formerly thought that humans would make good spellcasters due to the extra skill point but I now realize how few points you actually need.

Ice shards is very nice in narrow corridors with loads of enemies. Just for softening them up before they get to you so your front line can take them down with a few hits.

akroma222 wrote:Thanks AH for the new base spells!
I really like that most of them require multiple skills to cast

I would have forced the players to find the scrolls (and read/learn) before being able to cast - but its no big deal
I guess not doing this allows more freedom in how you want to specialise casters and in what kind of time frame

Cant wait to destroy something with meteor shower!!

Akroma

meteor really shines against groups of weak enemies, like the mummies on top of the pyramid in the desert. It will clear an entire group of 4, and will even take out a single mummy in a group behind the first one, or a single mummy on its own. very useful for creating some elbow room up there. basically, there is a LOT of undead in this game, and there is simply nothing better than this spell for taking them out. the only thing that does more damage to a single target is cleave on a 2h heavy weapon. can't stress it enough... it's worth the points.

if you have an alchemist, you can use them to create bombs for any element damage you are missing.

other spells that have been very useful:
-shield, if you get flanked.
-forcefield, to control who gets to attack, or give you a minute to breathe during a fight to quaff pots or whatnot.
-light. yeah, sounds obvious, but it lasts a LONG time for a little mana, and actually seems not to trigger puzzles where you need an absence of light (there are at least a couple of puzzles where torches are a no-go).
-fireball (still useful even after you get meteor, for weak enemies, breaking pots, testing teleporters, etc)
-lightning bolt (because it damages earth elementals)
-fire shield (dealing with fire traps, fire elementals, etc)
-frost shield (those annoying water elementals)

the basic magic attacks (fireburst, shock) continue to be useful throughout the game.

I tried invisibility, but if you get within a space of a monster, it will notice you and attack anyway. limited usefulness.
darkness I never found a need for, since the light spell does not seem to trigger traps, nor does being in the dark appear to make you less noticed, whether you are invisible or not.
darkness bolt... still have no idea if this works. was thinking maybe it acted as a "blind" spell, causing enemies to miss more, but not sure. I should try it on torches to see if it puts them out; either way, limited usefulness.
poison shield would have use, but then you have to take 3 earth.
shock shield has some use, especially later in the game
dispel only really useful against air elementals. otherwise, use opposite element to deal with elementals. lightning does way more damage to earth elementals than dispel, unfortunately (also, if you have shock bombs... those do even MORE damage, and can often take an earth elemental out with one bomb!)

Earth is extremely weak as a school; earth should definitely have a spell that does ranged damage that ISN'T poison. like hurl boulder or something like that, which you could use to damage air elementals/air oriented monsters. or, maybe a mudball you can cast at 3 earth, 1water that does earth damage and slows the target.

maybe a high level earth spell like "earthquake" at 5 earth 3 fire that does decent earth damage and stuns multiple targets for a few seconds.

Ichthyic wrote: darkness bolt... still have no idea if this works. was thinking maybe it acted as a "blind" spell, causing enemies to miss more, but not sure. I should try it on torches to see if it puts them out; either way, limited usefulness.

It does small damage and does indeed have a chance to blind which does lower their chance to hit.

It how ever is not something to write home about. I kick it at the start of a fright just for giggles really.

I forgot... while mentioning the limited usefulness of invisibility, I did forget to mention the one place where it really shines...

boss fights.

especially bosses that summon stuff as soon as they see you.

cast invis first, summon boss, then you have time to move to a good fighting spot, prep yourself with pots, power up those special attacks, and THEN get the boss' attention.

makes boss fights a bit easier.

meteor really shines against groups of weak enemies, like the mummies on top of the pyramid in the desert. It will clear an entire group of 4, and will even take out a single mummy in a group behind the first one, or a single mummy on its own. very useful for creating some elbow room up there. basically, there is a LOT of undead in this game, and there is simply nothing better than this spell for taking them out. the only thing that does more damage to a single target is cleave on a 2h heavy weapon. can't stress it enough... it's worth the points.

Sounds great, can never go past board wipers, room sweepers hehehe

if you have an alchemist, you can use them to create bombs for any element damage you are missing.

Ah have certainly paid some attention to the alchemy system! Ive got 5 points into alchemy and have not regretted it once... 3 bombs per mix!
And the fire bomb effect is marvellous! Loving it!

other spells that have been very useful:
-shield, if you get flanked.
-forcefield, to control who gets to attack, or give you a minute to breathe during a fight to quaff pots or whatnot.
-light. yeah, sounds obvious, but it lasts a LONG time for a little mana, and actually seems not to trigger puzzles where you need an absence of light (there are at least a couple of puzzles where torches are a no-go).
-fireball (still useful even after you get meteor, for weak enemies, breaking pots, testing teleporters, etc)
-lightning bolt (because it damages earth elementals)
-fire shield (dealing with fire traps, fire elementals, etc)
-frost shield (those annoying water elementals)

Very happy that Ah have added Shield and Force Field to the line up
I have not got into the habit of using them regularly as they do not lend to my style of fighting (quick evasion, always moving)
but Im sure on m y next playthrough I could build up a party that will really benefit from it!!

Also, if you cast a force field in front (facing) a wall then the cage surrounds the party instead of acting as a blocker! hehe

I tried invisibility, but if you get within a space of a monster, it will notice you and attack anyway. limited usefulness.
I forgot... while mentioning the limited usefulness of invisibility, I did forget to mention the one place where it really shines...

boss fights.

Absolutely. Just. So. Useful.
You can anticipate being surrounded, get up invisibility, just stop moving or side step so you are not in front of a monster... and watch the monsters stop in their tracks, scratch their heads and then go about their usual monster business.

Earth is extremely weak as a school; earth should definitely have a spell that does ranged damage that ISN'T poison. like hurl boulder or something like that, which you could use to damage air elementals/air oriented monsters. or, maybe a mudball you can cast at 3 earth, 1water that does earth damage and slows the target.

Agreed. In my Grimrock 1 mod, I included spells like Blades, Whipping rocks, Venomstone boulder to deal ranged physical damage in my Grimrock 1 mod - but even so, an "improved" poison cloud really still held its own late into the game, especially when you freeze the monsters first... kills them off noticeably quicker.

Akroma

is meteor shower scale with air magic or only fire?

Exila wrote:is meteor shower scale with air magic or only fire?

Fire Spell, Fire Magic.