Blood Moon

Are you looking for fun Custom Dungeons that you could play or do you want to share your mod with others? Then this forum is for you!
kelly1111
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:28 pm

Re: Blood Moon

Post by kelly1111 »

I am going to check if I applied the patch correctly. Will get back to you later.

Are you sure about the mod assets size folder not affecting performance? all the textures have to be loaded into memory ...
but if the patch fixes this ... well then.

I personally like to make my mod assets as small as possible... :)
but thats just me ..haha
minmay
Posts: 2789
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:24 am

Re: Blood Moon

Post by minmay »

When I originally posted here about large address awareness, I wanted to educate people on why Grimrock 2 can't use more than 2 GiB of RAM on Windows. I mentioned how to mark executables as large address aware, both because I thought maybe people would find it useful for editing and exporting dungeons, and because it would be a glaring omission not to (and someone else probably would have posted it anyway).

I now regret ever bringing it up, because I'm saddened and quite frankly disgusted that someone is trying to release a mod that requires it. I was trying to encourage people to keep their mods under the Windows executable's limit, not do the exact polar opposite and make mods that exceed it even further!

Requiring any modification to the executable also violates the official modding terms:
Running the mod must require an original copy of Legend of Grimrock 1 or Legend of Grimrock 2. Running the mod may not require, or perform, any modifications to the original game installation.
Grimrock 1 dungeon
Grimrock 2 resources
I no longer answer scripting questions in private messages. Please ask in a forum topic or this Discord server.
Pompidom
Posts: 497
Joined: Sun May 06, 2018 9:42 pm

Re: Blood Moon

Post by Pompidom »

I'm a practical guy :)
I just look at the results, so I implement practical solutions.

I don't hold myself back for anyone and their silly selfmade up rules locked up in their mental prisons.

I don't play by the rules, especially when I don't agree to the rules that make no sense.

You have to break eggs if you want to make a tasty omelette.

Even if I wanted to reduce the size so that it fits into a 32 bits 2 GB allocation.
I wouldn't even know how to.

The 4 GB patch is simply the most elegant solution to a problem that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Don't take this the wrong way, I understand everyone has his/her own opinion.
just making clear what my stance is.

Besides there are at least 2 other mods comming out this year for LoG2 that require the patch.
kelly1111
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:28 pm

Re: Blood Moon

Post by kelly1111 »

To each his own. I guess. And not to offend you... but don't you want to put out a mod that isnt stretched to the limits of what is possible ? (I mean with a mod assets folder the size of 1.4 GB ..people will have a hard time adding more custom assets of their own to the mod.
I really support your idea of a town mod for people to start of from.. when making their own mod, but what you have made now ..almost includes everything the community has made..

Still there is no right or wrong in it. People are free to choose to play and mod the game the way they want it. I just think it will not be accesible for everyone.

By the way: when I first started I bumped into the same problems mod assest wise / size wise, efficiency etc. I hated that I had to make my own folders, own material scripts, etc... but after I while I got the hang of it. And it isnt all that hard to include only the stuff you want to use and leave out the rest.
Pompidom
Posts: 497
Joined: Sun May 06, 2018 9:42 pm

Re: Blood Moon

Post by Pompidom »

That was exactly the point. People that are capable modders can create and add their own creations.
They don't have the need for this.
They already know everything.

This mod is intended for people that don't know shit like me.
People that never modded a game like me.
And for people that can't program for shit.
All they have to do is take a look at the lua scripts in the mod and copy it.
While having access to a wide availability of community made custom assets pre-installed.

With this mod any John Doe can pump out a mod that looks great instead of the boring and bland vanilla editor where they wouldn't even know how to begin. they can create their own maps in this project and then simply replace maps.

About the town map as a project.
It takes like 1 minute to delete all maps but the town map with the shop map and what you're left with is: exactly: the Town map.
So I find your arguments void :)

The mod isn't stretched to the limits of what is possible. I can add every single LoG2 custom asset pack out there and still not run out of memory.
It's exactly the opposite.
Limiting yourself to 2 GB of allocation size is the perfect example of limiting yourself or your project.

It's very simple, the mod requires the patch. It offers better performance and more custom assets. There is nothing bad about it. it's just win-win for all. Other mods will also use the patch. Other games have been modded in the same regard.
So deal with it.

I'm more baffled about the epic proportions of autism and drama about silly matters like this.

First zimzim and curublahblah crying like autistic children how this wouldn't be possible and how it would fail 100 % and how people wouldn't like it.

I just proved them 100% wrong with this simple demo which I haven't even put much time or effort in since during summertime I have very little time.
People and some friends from steam who tested the demo were all very positive and agreed it was a complete succes, considering it was made by me. Someone who doesn't know shit when it comes down to modding.

So how about everyone keeps their silly comments to himself and just concentrate on creating enjoyable mods as a community.

Constructive feedback is always appreciated.
Negativity and silly arguments caused by psychological disorders like autism or ocd however are not.
kelly1111
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:28 pm

Re: Blood Moon

Post by kelly1111 »

I just gave you some feedback on how I would do things. But I feel like it isnt welcome. You're free to do things your own way. I'll scurry back to my own mod ;)
Pompidom
Posts: 497
Joined: Sun May 06, 2018 9:42 pm

Re: Blood Moon

Post by Pompidom »

It wasn't aimed at you personally anyways :)
I just replied to some of your arguments how I see things differently.

It's commendable being a talented modder and sharing new things for a community.
But it's pretty pathetic going completely mental as soon someone actually uses those assets in a way that you personally not agree with and start nitpicking on everything that happens with said assets. Just let it go. It doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be efficient. As long it's enjoyable, just go for it.

You're 100 % right that optimizing and trimming down assets is a very essential part of professional game development.
However this isn't professional game development. It's just a hobby. And the 4 GB patch makes it 100% redundant.

I hope you can figure out why the patch isn't working for you.
Because there are at least 2 very brilliant looking mods to come out soon that require it.

And to answer about your performance questions. There is no performance difference using a 118 MB UD pack or the original 380 MB pack. As long you use the 4 GB patch.

Outdoor areas with sky and water are much more stressing your system than using big size textures.

This is basically true with most games out there. The difference in using low or ultra texture size in any game has very little impact in fps as long you have the required amount of VRAM. Same thing with anisotropic filtering pushed to 16X. It's the other graphical nonsense that are much more taxing.

Shadows and physics for example usually have a big impact on cpu performance while other graphical things like tessellation, hbao and other graphical settings have a more severe impact on gpu performance.

The secret of keeping up fps in your mod is to use small default (32x32?) size in outdoor maps limiting physics, sky and water.
Or simply counter it with a decent cpu with high ipc. LoG2 is single threaded and thus running on 1 cpu core.
Basically if you're making an indoor map without a sky entity, you can generally go nuts.
As soon you introduce a sky and make an outdoor map, potato pc's will start to struggle.

A 6 year old intel i5 cpu clocked at 4 GHz like my i5 3570k for example is a good cpu to run loG2 as it has superior ipc performance
A 6 year old AMD FX 8350 which came out around the same time/price clocked at 4 GHz is a poor choice for loG2 because of poor single core performance. This doesn't mean that this cpu is bad, it's just better suited for different multithreaded apps while offering poor performance in single threaded apps.

as for GPU power, anything above 3 Teraflops (basically gpu's from 2012+) should have no issue.

Also in your GPU graphics settings, enforce 16x anisotropic filtering to make LoG2 look better.
Also running VSR (AMD) or DSR (nVIDIA) makes the game look extra nice if you're running a potato screen resolution.
This does require more performance offcourse.

The 4 GB patch makes this all possible and makes it possible to run several mods in Highest settings without crashing when using anything higher than Medium graphics settings. For example Eye of Atlantis suffers from this issue. But works 100 % fine with the patch.

Basically in this sort of development, you shouldn't waste time on any performance related issues.
If people decide to play your mod on a potato computer, it's their fault for not playing it on a decent rig.
And if people don't want to use the 4 GB patch whatsoever for whatever reason, it's their loss.

You're basically lowering your overall graphical fidelity for everyone that plays your mod, while you can just go all the way making it look georgeous without effort or wasting any time. Why would you limit your mod limiting the overall use of fancy graphics and custom assets for some poor soul that doesn't have a decent computer or because some weird person with crazy ideas thinks you should.

This obsessive need to keep file size small is totally unnecessary. Yet too many people keep stressing over it for no logical reason. It doesn't lower performance at all. Just use the patch and let your creativity fly.

Any mod/map can become playable even on toaster rigs by simply letting the user use the following command line:
for e in party.map:allEntities() do if e.sky then e.sky:setFarClip(32) return end end

(changing the 32 number into an acceptable figure)

and then use
for e in party.map:allEntities() do if e.sky then e.sky:setFogRange{22,32}return end end
to introduce some fog.
minmay
Posts: 2789
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:24 am

Re: Blood Moon

Post by minmay »

Grimrock 2 is not single-threaded.
Grimrock 1 dungeon
Grimrock 2 resources
I no longer answer scripting questions in private messages. Please ask in a forum topic or this Discord server.
Pompidom
Posts: 497
Joined: Sun May 06, 2018 9:42 pm

Re: Blood Moon

Post by Pompidom »

minmay wrote: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:50 pm Grimrock 2 is not single-threaded.
Hm. i thought it was. Must have misread some info where they explained the render part in 16.66 ms.
It's definitely making good use of a dualcore indeed :)
Pompidom
Posts: 497
Joined: Sun May 06, 2018 9:42 pm

Re: Blood Moon

Post by Pompidom »

kelly1111 wrote: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:53 pm
I see that you use (almost?) all of minmays g1, do you really need everything from his pack in your mod? Thats another 507MB to your total size.
I was inspired by the movie cube. It's a movie where people wake up in a cubical room with doors in all directions and a never ending maze of cube rooms of which some contain traps.

So I made 1 map with 36 rooms 3x3x3 using 9x4 different g1 tilesets. The maze is riddled with invisible teleports teleporting you to another room in the same position/square with the same tileset to make it super confusing. I'm using g1 tilesets in demon dimensions. Extra statues ,torches, cozy, I fixed the extra items from it that were broken, used the available extra tomes and turned them into something different. I'm using a lot of it. And since I have no idea how much more I'm going to use... Well you get the idea.
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