Changes from Grimrock 1 you DIDN'T like

[Darak]

There is no reason why exteriors couldn't be interesting, but the way they forced you to trip away from partially explored areas all the time makes it feel huge and boring IMHO.

The game plays and feels like Eye of the Beholder 3. This path killed the tiled dungeon crawlers, and for a good reason.

I hope there is a third game and it is a return to form. Otherwise, I'm not interested.

[Geonjaha]

@Luj1 - I agree with some of your points (1)/(2), but definitely not about the unarmed skill (4).
Having a skill that bases your power on never finding any loot is stupid - the whole point is to find better equipment, and the unarmed skill just takes that necessity away. Yes, it may be weaker, but having a whole skill based on not having any item is stupid; you're going to find one within the first 10 minutes of playing.

As for the potions (3), I have mixed feelings both ways. Yes it was nice to organise potions by vial, but it was also fairly tedious. I think having the option to switch between both modes would be cool, but I wouldn't fault them at all for changing it.

(5) The game has so much more content than the first - not having an identical hidden Easter egg isn't really a fault.
(6) Yes, it was nice to have this, but again, there are already more normal loot items in this second game.

[MostlyHarmless]

i'm on my first play-through, stuck at cemetery gate and crystal mine entrance puzzles, plus some minor ones (i hope) in various dungeons... characters are around level 12-13.

the thing i find most frustrating is the large size and having to travel long distances to get back to puzzles that i want to try again, although i'm not saying the game is worse for this (maybe it's even an improvement), it's just annoying.

i haven't used charged weapons much (was saving them for boss battles), but recently i tried them against the huge fire golem things in the desert with the mummies and trikster, and noticed that they didn't work or kind of sucked...

i tried guns only briefly before deciding to stick to arrows, but they should be more effective imo, or at least pass all normal armor... my understanding is that pirate type gun shot could pierce medieval plate mail quite easily making heavy armor obsolete by the 17th century...

as for empty flasks - don't miss them, they just complicated inventory management.

i prefer new skill system and character development mechanics because it gives more freedom.

special attacks work fine for me, i just load them while approaching enemies or while doing the combat dance / circling an enemy, or while backing away. if there's no room or time for that, then i just use the regular attacks of course. i.e. they make combat more strategic and hence are step up for me from LoG1 alternative.

unarmed combat was a good throwback to the nineties, but it was "unrealistic" for what that's worth... also, i didn't like playing unarmed fighter/rogue much in LoG1 because there was almost no cool toys to find for them.

[Theotolax]

Yes, there are a lot of interesting improvements I liked very much.

But what is it worth when I run between the rat king (whom I actually already killed in another level before) and a trickster, immediately after leaving the Crystal Mine with 4 power gems intending to use them later at a shrine? The Trickster kills my party so fast (being blocked between him and the rat king). No chance even to use the crystals of protection I collected or getting back into the mines.

Btw. I got 13 Power Gems (2 Essences are ready) Right now, no hub key available (hard to find imho by the way). A tough fight is o.k., but if there's not the slightest chance to survive or escape?
Who the .... needs such a frustrating type of enemy? Unforunately I ain't got no time to play the game all week long, as I got a job and family and only got some time for gaming after work (weekend or late evening). That kind of strange balancing is totally unfair and so I finally quit playing the game I liked that much until now...

[Merethif]

So far (my characters are level 8 now) I would agree with two things, already mentioned in this thread, that I'm missing in LoG2:
1. No empty bottles needed in alchemy.
2. No claustrophobic suffocating isolation atmosphere.

They are both very minor issues though and it's nothing game-breaking.
I fully understand that LoG2 is a new game with new and unique theme and atmosphere.

Ok, as I progressed through the LoG2 I've found third one, the one that hasn't been mentioned yet I suppose. And honestly it's the most disappointment one. Here it is:
3. Indestructible tapestries. I adored tearing them in original LoG. Even during my forth playthrough, when I knew exactly where all buttons and alcoves are hidden, I still was tearing each tapestries out there - just for a shear pleasure. And that sound.

[minmay]

Yes, there are a lot of interesting improvements I liked very much.

But what is it worth when I run between the rat king (whom I actually already killed in another level before) and a trickster, immediately after leaving the Crystal Mine with 4 power gems intending to use them later at a shrine? The Trickster kills my party so fast (being blocked between him and the rat king). No chance even to use the crystals of protection I collected or getting back into the mines.

Btw. I got 13 Power Gems (2 Essences are ready) Right now, no hub key available (hard to find imho by the way). A tough fight is o.k., but if there's not the slightest chance to survive or escape?
Who the .... needs such a frustrating type of enemy? Unforunately I ain't got no time to play the game all week long, as I got a job and family and only got some time for gaming after work (weekend or late evening). That kind of strange balancing is totally unfair and so I finally quit playing the game I liked that much until now...

The crystal mines have two exits. If you find ratlings too hard, it's not necessary to fight them.

[Theotolax]

Hi minmay,

thanks a lot for your hint, I appreciate your help and start another try against all odds
Anyway I hope that this tricky Trickster thingi remains the only point during the game, I'was about to quit and that I could convey my reasons (of being annoyed by unfair balancing) to the members reading this topic.

Thanks again! Read ya!

[Eldur]

Take a look at someone who has been playing the game at it's hardest; viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7559.

He acknowledges that skills simply take too long in the harder fights to charge.

I was fine with the LoG1 system (passive chance). Albeit worth noting is that was embedded in skills, not weapons

I'm not yet sure what to think of this new system (charging). I can use it just fine by charging, holding and releasing onto an enemy. This allows a good surprise factor, but is problematic in longer, dynamic fights. So, perhaps what I'd do is the following ....


Keep this current 'charge a special move' system (which is linked to weapons)

Bring back the passive chance for a 'special move' that uses energy (same like in LoG1 - linked to skill level, not weapons)


This way, you wouldn't always be forced to charge in complex, dynamic fights to get more damage (and by that spend priceless time by doing nothing with the other party members) and instead rely on passive chance. So it's basically empowering weapon skills (some people apparently think they're weak)



EDIT:........ or an even better idea - Make charging a weapon mildly automated. For example Holding for more than 1 second would make the move finish itself (Lets say a full move lasts 3s )

Keep in mind this wouldn't make surprises impossible, you'd just have to time it while closing in on the enemy tile

Some interesting thoughts. Personally I don't like the LoG1 way as you don't have any control of your energy due to the randomness plus you never know when the special attack strikes, so you can never really rely on it. The LoG2 way tries to beat exactly these problems but it brings another which is the things that you can just act with one single weapon at a time.

My proposal is: Charge the weapon special attacks just like it is now, maybe with a little shorter duration, but now the difference: Don't fire off the skills when releasing the RMB. Keep the weapons charged until you right click them once just like you would do for a normal attack. So this would be similar to preparing a spell before firing it off with the cast button and gives you the chance to charge up some strock attacks in the front row, ready some spells and throw them out quickly at some strong enemies. Of course this could make some fights easier, but waiting for the energy to come back, which isn't much for fighter classes anyway, will take up loads of food which basically is limited in the game, so one can't really exploit it and try to kill everything just with charge attacks. On the other hand LoG2 normal is like LoG1 hard. Playing LoG2 on hard even with 4 mages is really hard, so I don't see the game becoming too easy anyway.

[MostlyHarmless]

Hi minmay,

thanks a lot for your hint, I appreciate your help and start another try against all odds
Anyway I hope that this tricky Trickster thingi remains the only point during the game, I'was about to quit and that I could convey my reasons (of being annoyed by unfair balancing) to the members reading this topic.

Thanks again! Read ya!

casting fire shield does wonders for the trickster encounters. and if you have full meteor armor quipped (including meteor shield) you get fire immunity for that character.

[Theotolax]

@MostlyHarmless: Thanks for the advice. But: To recieve the full Meteor armour (last part I found in the

SpoilerShow

Barren Desert

it's necessary to run through some Trickster encounters and even now I survive at least) but I could not kill the Trickster before he/it disappeared. Even the rat king's "fat gun" didn't give him some scratches Anyway as long as it's possible to run away it's ok,but in a cagelike environment it's annoying IMHO.
cu!
Theotolax