Speed of the game - Please allow slower play

[thimble]

I liked the idea of Grimrock, but found it, in practice, unplayable because it required much too frantic clicking in the UI.

I've played Dungeon Master beginning to the end AFTER trying out Grimrock so real-time isn't the problem, it's really a combination of the speed at which things occur and the degree to which the Grimrock 1 interface required far too much clicking in combat. It looks like SOME of the clickfest of the Grimrock 1 interface has been reduced (Still, the cast interface shouldn't overlap the action interface, and spells should probably be precastable, but I digress..)

*PLEASE* consider doing one of the following:

* Make the game overall run fractionally slower.
* Provide a speed toggle
* Provide a speed slider

I know I'm not alone in this view. Obviously fans of the first game, by and large, won't have had this problem, so there's no need to shout about how you disagree. I'm just trying to say the game really did NOT work at all for me and many other people for this one simple issue.

[Dr.Disaster]

What do you mean by "slower"?

In case you think the monsters are too fast just use a lower difficulty setting. Beside that the environment i.e. doors opening, spells traveling or arrows flying has it's own speed. It's absolutly reasonable and IMO pretty much the same as in DM so the only difference is the way better animation.

[chaoscommencer]

Perhaps implementing auto attacks (at least for champions equipped with melee weapons) would help here...

[Dr.Disaster]

Perhaps implementing auto attacks (at least for champions equipped with melee weapons) would help here...

eeeek it's the AA word again ..

It would be a real surprise if AH would implement that cursed EoB3 "All Attack" button or something similar.

[thimble]

@Dr.Disaster:
1 - the speed problems were not limited to combat
2 - the speed of combat being too high is independent of the strength of the monsters, and the easy level affected both

@chaoscommencer:
I respectfully disagree. I don't think the requirement to take an action to attack is a problem, and as a (primarily) combat-oriented game, it's an important element to create a connection to what's happening, as well as a sense of urgency etc. I do, however, think there are UX problems that should be cleaned up.

Example problem: When you click to cast a spell, your hand buttons vanish and the runes appear. This means that you can't see the runes ahead of time so can't visualize what you want to do. It also means you can't just start using the runes. This adds clicks, and reduces usability.

Solution: make the runes always present, just like Dungeon Master. In this way you can just start using the runes if you want to cast a spell, and there's no extra click to start using them. Also if you have a half-cast spell, you aren't locked out using items in your hands.

----

Really overall the pace of combat should be a bit lower, and then there should be more cerebral challenges added to combat. As a twitchy game it's just awkward; there are many games that do that much better, from first person shooters to starcraft. The transition from hunting for magic pixels to clickfrenzy is just ungainly.

But hey, some people, I guess, LIKE this high speed. I think it's just a bad design choice overall, but I have no fundamentally compelling argument (unlike the UX problems) other than I've seen many people reporting they can't deal with playing the game at all. So that really only strongly argues that slower should be possible, not that it is the only right speed.

[Dr.Disaster]

@Dr.Disaster:
1 - the speed problems were not limited to combat
2 - the speed of combat being too high is independent of the strength of the monsters, and the easy level affected both

1 - seems you need to explain this further then

2 - adding both speed and strength/damage to monsters are needed to make monsters more difficult. Only increasing monster strength while it's still as slow and out-manoverable as before would increase the length of combat but not it's difficulty. The other way to change difficulty would be to change AI. Not possible in LoG1 but we'll get it in LoG2.

Example problem: When you click to cast a spell, your hand buttons vanish and the runes appear. This means that you can't see the runes ahead of time so can't visualize what you want to do. It also means you can't just start using the runes. This adds clicks, and reduces usability.

Solution: make the runes always present, just like Dungeon Master. In this way you can just start using the runes if you want to cast a spell, and there's no extra click to start using them. Also if you have a half-cast spell, you aren't locked out using items in your hands.

Solution: do NOT let your mage stroll around unprepared!
Have it's rune tablet active all the time, preferably with a ready-to-cast spell prepared in it like this:

[Dandy]

I agree with the OP.
One of the things that dampened the experience of LOG, was that the everything moved to FAST. It was leaning more to a hack and slash then a DM clone or tactical game. The fast speed simply killed the suspense that DM use to drip with.

[Dr.Disaster]

One of the things that dampened the experience of LOG, was that the everything moved to FAST. It was leaning more to a hack and slash then a DM clone or tactical game. The fast speed simply killed the suspense that DM use to drip with.

I disagree on that. The noticed speed difference is a pure impression caused by the better animation. Take away all frames except the first and the last of any LoG monster animation and you got the exact DM equivalent. Beside this game tactics and mood are very much the same in both games. I can tell due to my first LoG play-thru; several areas freaked the hell out of me.

[Dandy]

One of the things that dampened the experience of LOG, was that the everything moved to FAST. It was leaning more to a hack and slash then a DM clone or tactical game. The fast speed simply killed the suspense that DM use to drip with.

I disagree on that. The noticed speed difference is a pure impression caused by the better animation. Take away all frames except the first and the last of any LoG monster animation and you got the exact DM equivalent. Beside this game tactics and mood are very much the same in both games. I can tell due to my first LoG play-thru; several areas freaked the hell out of me.

You see, we have different opinions of the game. My first play-through was more of frustration than immersion. Apart from the first level it didn't bring back any of the old magic back. It was more a modern DM for the younger gamer.
The things I found wrong with LOG were.

To fast.
Puzzles were awful and had very little logic to them.
The twitch games were terrible and brought many a older gamer to a stand still.
The level designs just didn't feel right.
Awkward UI
No monster crunching doors.

It is a lovely looking game with great support, and dedicated developers. But for me it didn't quite make it.

[thimble]

Luckily the knowledge of pre-casting is already stated in my existing posts.
That doesn't address the raised issues of the interface problems already in the existing posts, however.