[Greenlight] The Fall of the Dungeon Guardians

[manutoo]

Hello,

1st of all, I'd like to thank Almost Human guys to let other Indie developers like me to post in these forums !

So I'm here to present you my Dungeon Crawler, mainly inspired by Dungeon Master like LoG, but differing a lot on the combat system as it's based on the triptych “tank/damage dealer/healer” mechanism.

I have nearly finished it and it should be released soon, so I set up its Greenlight page here and it'd be very kind of you to vote for it to help me get it on Steam : http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =489556661 .

Thanks in advance for your vote !

[Komag]

It looks impressive, I voted for it

[Zo Kath Ra]

The flying eyes look a lot like the ones from Grimrock

[manutoo]

Komag,
thanks !

Zo Kath Ra,
there are flying eyes in Grimrock ?
Do you mean the Crowern : http://www.gamebanshee.com/legendofgrim ... rowern.php ?
Or maybe the Shrakk Torr : http://www.gamebanshee.com/legendofgrim ... kktorr.php ?
Or my memory is falling apart even more than I thought..?

[... a little research later ...]

I found out the Eyctopus http://legendofgrimrock.com/?id=181&site=2 . I guess it's the one you meant... I have 0 memory of it, although I played LoG2 less than 1 year ago...

[minmay]

It more closely resembles the Xeloroid monster, seen near the end of this trailer. But honestly the giant bat cyclops is a pretty common fantasy creature design, so I wouldn't sweat it.

[leewroy]

I've been away for a while, and when I come back I see this. Awesome! Hope your work ir really at the end, this game resembles too must Log, so it will be great

[manutoo]

minmay,
oh yup, it must be that one, and at least I remembered it once I saw it..!
And you're right, it's a very classic kind of monsters in RPG, especially in Dungeon Crawlers with the beholder.

leewroy,
thanks ! Gameplay has significant differences when compared to LoG, though ; in very short : less puzzle centric, and more tactical combat.

[petri]

Interesting project. However, let me give you some advice. The audience does not care whether you think your game is only 5% Grimrock as you write on your blog. Instead they see this:



Are the similarities in visual style by chance? Think for a moment that Grimrock would not exist and you would be creating this game. How would your game look in that world? Whether you admit it or not, there are many similaries to Juho's work. On the surface there is nothing wrong with it. After all, Grimrock is clearly inspired by Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder and we have been very open about it. But! Now comes the important part.

What does your audience, the potential players of your game, think of this? As you have already seen, some of them will accuse you of ripping graphics from the Grimrock asset pack (even when it's not true!), some of them have an iffy feeling when the games look too similar and perhaps even vote you down. Some will think, I've spent like 50 hours in these tunnels already, why bother again? Regardless of whether these accusations are true or not, the public image of your game will be hurt. Game development is hard as it is, there's no point of making it even harder for yourself.

From a marketing point of view, it can be sometimes a good idea to look or feel like an existing product to get traction, but really, the game market has become so crowded that it's a much better idea to try to find your own niche and differentiate your game from others.

Also ask yourself this: when you eventually read the reviews of your game, would you like to be constantly reminded how that one wallset "looks very much like Grimrock"?

This is just a friendly advice from another indie developer. Good luck with the greenlight!

[minmay]

yeah, that is a shame. It's really hard for me to care about the game when your screenshots show three settings (out of four, according to your blog!) that are clearly imitating another game, two of which are doing it very blatantly. If you cut off the top half of the screenshots, the structure of your mossy brick environment is identical to Grimrock's.

It's not illegal, obviously, but it isn't good.

[manutoo]

petri,
if Grimrock didn't exist, and I still had the idea to do a mossy old dungeon (which is not a given, of course), then the result would have been likely still very close of what you see on the screenshot above.

A proof ?
I have 0 idea what minmay is talking about with the 2 other "blatantly" imitated environments.

I remember the 2 other environments from Grimrock, they don't look like the 3 other ones of DG. Maybe LoG2 then ? But my environments have been designed & produced before its release (except the Evil Crypt actually), and months before I put my hands on it.

This type of game based on 3x3m squares implies a lot of constraints. The theme, an underground dungeon defines pretty much the settings. There's only a few possible outcomes and the general impressions will be close, especially when the theme chosen is "old mossy dungeon".

If I had a 2-day solution to fix all that mess, I'd do it. But at this point, whatever I do, as long as I have stone walls with moss on it, it'll be "you ripped it off Grimrock" for some guys.
So here I'd be spending weeks & extra money to get the new environments, and I can't afford that now.

And anyway, even if I'd manage to do that, my game would still be "it'd have never existed if Grimrock didn't exist" (although I thought about it for the 1st time in 2008, 3 years & half before the release of LoG and almost 3 years before its 1st videos on Youtube).

Coz as of today, Grimrock is the king of the FPV Dungeon Crawling, and every new one will be compared to it, we have to live with it, no choice..!


minmay,
could you tell me what environments are same to which one(s) for you ?